The Defects Continue

We had noticed a bulge in the rear most portion of the passenger sidewall behind the slide. The bulge is (was) in the black aluminum skirting at the bottom of the wall which hides the wall seam and the frame rail. We don’t remember exactly when the bulge first appeared, but it was not there in February of 2022 when I was busy making skirts for the RV.

The bulge _was_ present in the fall of 2022, as can be seen in this picture from October.

The bulge had grown by February, but was still only a bulge at that time.

This is what the bulge looks like today. The video explains the rest.

As you can see, the first screw which backed out was one of the screws securing the bottom of the wall structure to the RV’s floor assembly. The RV’s floor assembly is then (supposed to be) bolted to the frame with the fasteners discussed in Part One and Part Two. Now the rest of this same line of screws which hold the sidewall to the floor assembly have begun to back out.

Will the RV make it back to our property? We honestly don’t know at this point, but we obviously hope so. Forest River still denies any responsibility for this damage or repair.

Forest River Fails, Denies Responsibility (Again)

If you recall the email that we sent back to Forest River after their denial, that email politely suggested that they review our case and reconsider. We thought that after we explained the situation with the frame checks having been done incorrectly that Forest River would tell us to find another shop to have the work redone.

But that’s not what happened.

We didn’t get any further responses from Forest River until I called LCI directly. After we had done so we sent the following email to Forest River.

Forest River did respond by EOD 4/7. This is what they sent.

Climbing the Ladder

Cheyenne Clark is the public interface to Forest River service. Since she is the only public point of contact for the service department, anyone wishing to communicate with Forest River must go through her. At least, that’s how Forest River would prefer it to be. But the power of the internet can help a person find all kinds of useful information.

Did you know that there are websites that keep track of companies’ boards of directors, C-level executives, etc? They sometimes include contact information for those company executives. Many of the people in this story are on LinkedIn as well.

We sent the following email as our final direct email communication about our case to Forest River. We sent it to Cheyenne Clark, whom you already know. We also sent it to two other people: Peter Liegl – Forest River’s founder and CEO, and David Youmans, Forest River’s C-level “Director of Ethics and Compliance”.

We were hopeful that this email to high level executives would get our case the attention it deserved.

Our hopes were shattered when we received this email from Henry Sears, who we presume is somewhere in middle management; above Cheyenne Clark and Chad Cook, but below the C-levels that we emailed above. Was Mr. Sears willing to help, or even discuss our case further?

No, he only doubled down again.

Lippert is Silent

Forest River keeps telling us to discuss the case with Lippert. it would be great if we could do that. Unfortunately, Lippert has been very elusive when we ask them for their denial and the reasons for it in writing. The last email we sent to Lippert was this one. We are still waiting for an answer…

And remember – ALL OF THIS centers around this supposed frame issue which neither Forest River nor LCI want to talk about, and which RV Masters has proven does not exist.

Refund or Replace

What a complete and total mess. Am I right?

When all this started we would have been very happy to have the crack repaired so that we could continue our traveling adventure. After everything that has happened, it seems that wasn’t meant to be. People say things like “The Lord moves in mysterious ways …”. As I have said before, that has not been my experience. I find it to be downright overt at times.

With the continued problems we are having with this RV we do not feel that it can be repaired. We have resigned ourselves to moving out of the RV and changing directions. Now we are hoping that the RV stays together long enough for us to get to our property. Once there it can sit stationary until we get the house built, but it can not continue to be used for travel camping in its condition.

With damage this severe we are seeking either a replacement unit or a refund. Even if this one can be saved we would never be able to trust it. How could we? Just take Forest River’s word for it because we have experienced so much honesty to this point?

To Be Continued

Thank you again to everyone who has come forward with their similar stories and support. There is a cynicism that we see both inside and outside the RV community too often. “It’s an RV. You should have known it was built as cheaply as they can make one. They have problems. That’s just part of it.”

I am not sorry that I refuse to accept this failure as normal, or just part of owning an RV. This is not normal wear and tear. The body of an RV should not fall off in the first year. That’s not a normal thing that happens. Our unit is bad, and Forest River should feel bad. But they don’t.

We have strength in numbers. The more of us there are, the more reasonable it becomes to hear terms like “class action” being thrown around. If you own a Forest River RV and have a similar experience, do not accept this as normal. If this is normal for Forest River, Forest River needs a new normal in a bad way.

Check back for the next – and hopefully final – episode of Forest River Fails, Denies Responsibility. We are living the next episode as we type this one. We will update you all as soon as we have more to share.

Update: Part four is now available.

The post Forest River Fails, Denies Responsibility – Part Three appeared first on Metaphysical Family.

At the conclusion of Forest River Fails, Denies Responsibility – Part One we knew these things:

• Our RV does not have a frame issue, despite Forest River’s insistence to the contrary.
• Our RV was built using fasteners which either:
  • Weren’t tightened appropriately at the factory, or
  • Were tightened at the factory, but backed off from the tight position because they were not the proper fastener for this connection.
• Forest River claims that they have no responsibility. They claim this based on statements apparently made by LCI (Lippert) centering around the Sumo Springs we added to the RV.

But as you read in episode one, there is no issue with our frame, and there never was. But we are not alone in this failure.

There are Others

After we received the denial email from Cheyenne Clark, we sent our response to Forest River.

^{[Update: The SuperSprings link above is no longer valid. Anyone wishing to view that page should view the internet archive version located here. Thanks Wes! The FTC link is valid and located here. ]}

We mention another RV that we know Forest River had repaired. That RV belonged to a very kind gentleman named Kevin that we met through Facebook. Kevin’s 2019 model 36BHQ had failed in almost exactly the same way that ours had.

I spent a while talking with Kevin about his issue. Kevin let me know that it took a very long time to get it resolved. Kevin had to involve his State’s Attorney General’s office, the Better Business Bureau and the process still took _two years_ to be resolved. Forest River had fixed his issue under “good faith” in 2022, over _two years_ after Kevin’s “warranty” expired.

Since this whole mess began we have met several more people online who have this exact issue with their Forest River RV’s as well. Most of those have either not begun a warranty/”good faith” repair claim, or have just begun the process.

Forest River is obviously aware that this is a recurring problem with these units. I hope that we are not the first to link the loose body bolts with the sidewall failures for them. If we are, we also have a simple solution for the problem.

Use of Incorrect Fastener

Forest River uses serrated flange nuts to fasten the body bolts to the frame. Anyone with even a little mechanical experience (or a Forest River RV) knows that this is not the correct fastener for this job. Perhaps the nuts were spun up finger tight on the studs by the worker who drilled the holes in the floor, and then left for the next guy. Perhaps the timer on our unit ran out before those fasteners could be tightened. We can only speculate as to whether the fasteners were tightened properly at the factory.

But let’s assume that the flange nuts were tightened at the factory. If any of that structure compresses (which it really shouldn’t) during shakedown there is nothing to prevent the flange nut from vibrating and shaking itself more loose. If only there were a fastener that could be used which would stay in place once it’s tightened, even if the things it’s holding get compressed. There is! The correct fastener would be the nylon lock nut.

There are 24 of these bolts exposed on the 36BHQ. When purchased at Fastenal by an individual the price difference is a mere $5.80. Forest River undoubtedly has the purchasing power to get that down even lower. Or they could build that into the sale price of each unit. I am sure the retail customer that ends up with the unit would happily pay the $6 to know that the body won’t fall off their RV. We certainly would have.

[Update: The SuperSprings link above is no longer valid. Anyone wishing to view that page should view the web archive page here.]

If you own a Forest River RV, it’s worth checking these body studs. We have met several people online since posting part one of this story who have checked their body studs to find the bolts loose as well.

Join “Sabre RV Camper by Forest River” on Facebook to follow this thread.

* ^{Join “Sabre RV Camper by Forest River” and “Sabre 36BHQ Owners Group” on Facebook to follow these conversations.}

Stay Tuned!

Despite the overwhelming evidence, Forest River has maintained that they have no responsibility for this failure. We maintain that they do. How will it all shake out?

Don’t miss the next installment in episode three of Forest River Fails, Denies Responsibility!

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The post Forest River Fails, Denies Responsibility – Part Two appeared first on Metaphysical Family.